50. Property Investing 101: Mastering Budgeting and Cash Flow with Morgan Owen.
Prepare to be inspired as I take you on a journey through an incredible episode of the Money Mindset Hub podcast. During my conversation with the exceptional Morgan Owen, founder of Penny Finance and an extremely talented broker, we delved into the importance of financial independence and the mindset required to achieve it. Morgan shared her inspiring story as an entrepreneur, highlighting the importance of having a strong mindset and unwavering determination to succeed.
One of the key takeaways from our conversation was the importance of having a clear understanding of your budget and financial goals. Morgan emphasized the need for educating clients on their budget and helping them understand what they can realistically afford. She also stressed the importance of seeking sound advice and making logical decisions when it comes to property and investments.
Morgan is dedicated to understanding your needs, desires and above all finding a way to make it work, that is a testament to her commitment to helping you achieve financial independence and getting into the property market. Her mindset of abundance and generosity is truly inspiring.
If you're ready to take your financial game to the next level and get into the property market, I highly recommend connecting with Morgan and taking advantage of her expertise and guidance. With the right mindset and support, you too can achieve financial independence and live the life you've always dreamed of.
Check out the Penny Finance website and how Morgan can support you.
Sign up to her emailing list and choose to receive the free Penny Budget Template or the Penny Refinancing eBook.
Connect with Morgan on Instagram @_pennyfinance
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Speaker 0 (00:00:00) - Welcome back to the Money Mindset Hub podcast. I'm your host, Carla Townsend, and I'm a money mindset and success coach for female entrepreneurs who are ready to manifest a masterpiece in their life and in their business. So let's get started.
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Speaker 1 (00:02:52) - Welcome back to another episode of the Money Mindset Hub podcast. I am so excited for this conversation. I've been hanging for it. So I have Morgan Owen with me who is the founder of Penny Finance. Obviously I'm gonna put all your links in here. So a little bit about Morgan to get started, and then I'll hand it over to the real Morgan. Then she's the founder of Penny Finance and is an expert at all things loans, mortgages, finance, personal cash flow. So she's young, energetic driven entrepreneur who challenges the status quo and finds it very hard to take no for an answer. She is a planner and an organizer at heart, a thinker, a solution finder. Morgan uses her empathy as her superpower to connect and inspire those around her to get results, plan for success, and build financial independence. I love that intro and I can a hundred percent see your attitude towards banks in getting a no.
Speaker 1 (00:03:45) - I like, I feel like that one that's like, no, I was gonna do it my way and it's gonna work. And you're going to say yes because at the end of the day, I'm gonna get what I want. So, well, I'm gonna give it to you. Tell us a little bit more about you and what got you started and yeah, all about your incredibly successful business. Thank you, Carla. Thanks for having me. I've been really excited to come on here as well. I've been listening to your other conversations and being really inspired by that too, by the way, so thank you. Perfect. Okay. Wow, where did it start? I've been broken for tell me up to seven years now. And I went into broking because I was working in corporate or working, you know, in businesses where I just kept hitting income ceilings where you'd do a certain job and you'd get paid a certain amount because that's what that job was worth.
Speaker 1 (00:04:30) - And I, I really just kind of wanted a job where I could be in controlled and I knew I wanted to have a business and I just wasn't quite sure, uh, you know, what that business was gonna look like. Even during my mba, I was still trying to figure that out. Anyway, fast forward to having, essentially a mentor of mine came to me and was like, well then gonna start a finance business and I want you to essentially run it. That's pretty much how it came about to be really honest. And so at that time, I've always been someone who kind of just works it out, you know? Yeah, you throw something at me, I'm, I'm probably gonna figure it out if I want to. If it's something that I'm keen on, I will generally find a way exactly how I operate the business and how if I operate with the home loans, because if I think that there is a a, a real need for it, then I'll make it happen.
Speaker 1 (00:05:10) - Like, you know, there's obviously circumstances with clients where I know I'm gonna be putting them in a better position, so I'll be doing everything I can to fight to make sure that that happens. There are circumstances though, where the client wouldn't be putting themselves in a better spot and therefore I need to then educate them on that piece as well. So yeah, with Penny Finance, now that I have that, it's all mine. Previously I had tried a few other different things. I'd been in partnerships and, and none of that kind of really worked just because from a values perspective, things just never really, really aligned. So I started Penny from a pretty low point, to be honest in, in my life. I had to walk away from, well, I didn't intentionally wanna walk away, but I had to walk away from business that was essentially taken out from underneath me.
Speaker 1 (00:05:53) - And I also left my marriage at that time as well. I really That you were married before? Oh my God, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think the pandemic for a lot of people was a, a real take stop moment to be like, you know, is my life what I want my life to be. At the start of 2020, it was start of 20, I was really, really, really unhappy ultimately. And I was looking at everything and I was like, what am I doing? Like I can't keep doing this. I can't keep pretending that everything is okay. Like when I reflect on it, it feels like I just made a decision, like pretty, pretty well on the spot. Like, I didn't take myself through any sort of real grieving process. I didn't take myself through any, any sort of real process. I just, I just knew, I just knew I had to get out and I had to make some really, really big, big changes.
Speaker 1 (00:06:48) - And so that's what I did. But obviously it was really awful, you know, because there's lots of people that get really impacted by that. Your family, my partner at the time, and absolutely no disrespect to him at all. Like he's a good person. , he was good to me. The thing was is we got married really young, we were different people. We, we definitely grew to be very different people wanting different things and you know, you can't just keep going with that. I came from a broken, no, I'm not a broken home. My, my parents are divorced. And then for the better, absolutely for the better. And so I never thought I would end up there. So then you're gonna go through that whole thing of, oh God, I'm doing what I said I wouldn't do and leave and, and whatever. But obviously for me, people who knew me then, and people who know me now can see that I am literally a different human.
Speaker 1 (00:07:33) - That the rebirth essentially that I was able to have out of leaving my past, realistically behind is what I had to do to be able to really move forward and propel myself. Because the way I I kind of describe it is I was feeling like I was kind of just like dragging myself through life as opposed to really living. And it was really in those depths of despair moments, I was like, shit, I gotta do something here. And I had all, I had clients cuz I'd, I'd been a broker at up to this point, right? And I'd been a broker, I had clients and, and even though the, the previous business was essentially being taken away from me, I still had a whole heap of clients that, that needed my help. And so I was like, screw it, I'll just do it myself. And that's where it all started , like right in the heart of a pandemic, really.
Speaker 1 (00:08:17) - Right? It's just like unknown. You were in like mm-hmm. midst of everything was unknown, unknown of like what's gonna come and you're having to deal with so much and moved through so much. But my god, Morgan, like that takes so much courage. So much courage in essentially you're just like, I'm burning it all down, I'll starting again. I'm bitter true to myself, right? Yeah. And so many women would be so empowered by hearing you say that because I'm sure there are many women, you know, or, and men, I don't men listen to this as well, but there would be like, there is something within me that's just like, this is not me. This is not me life that I've envisioned. And they do something about it. And a lot don't actually ever get to that point. So that's empowering to know, know that like other people do it.
Speaker 1 (00:08:56) - And guess what's on the other side of that magical things. You look so happy in content in time, , you were just the way that you're showing up now, but even the way that you know on your stories and your reels and your through your content is so playful and happy and that energy is felt so mind blowing to me that you went from that place only a couple of years ago to now being where you are in like such a drastically different lives. But so true to you. Thank you. Yeah. And I had quite a few people reach out at that point and then say similar things At that time I didn't actually feel that brave, I didn't actually feel that it took a lot of courage. I actually felt like I was doing what I had to do and I really had no other choice.
Speaker 1 (00:09:39) - Like I was in a survival mechanism at that point. And so people were reaching out and being like, you know, it's so brave what you're doing, so much courage and everything. And I was like, you know, thank you. And I was like, you know, grateful that people saw it that way. And it's really only upon reflection when you look back and you're like far out. That was hectic self through bloody hectic. But I didn't You survived. Yeah, you survived. Exactly. But I was done with just surviving and that's the thing. Yeah, I was done with just surviving. I wanted to thrive. I knew that I had so much to give and I, I needed to not be around people. And this includes, you know, previous businesses and, you know, previous relationships where it was everything was always like, Morgan, you be in the shadows, you do all the work, but , but we won't sort of put you forward because you're better at doing that.
Speaker 1 (00:10:29) - Right. And in, in partnerships and marriages and everything, like everyone has their role to play. And I just, I kept playing this role of the behind the scenes and I was like, no, I got more than that. I got more to give than that. I need to shine that light. And, and it's, it's one of those weird things. I sort about pumping up my own ties. I'm not trying to do that. I'm, and, and you know, it's not to say that I'm better than anyone and I absolutely don't think that it, for me it's just about, I knew I had more to give and I knew I had something to say and I just needed a platform to be able to do that without someone telling me I shouldn't. Yeah. That's amazing. And to be honest, like you don't need to justify any of that because that's just you sharing your gifts with the world or the way that feels the most trust to you.
Speaker 1 (00:11:10) - Shining your light is nothing more beautiful and empowering than seeing someone else shine their light because it shows you that it's possible for, you're just gonna have that strength. You gotta have that courage, the like commitment to your vision for your life because you got one online. I actually read a quote from Steve Jobs yesterday. He reminds himself that someday he's gonna die. So what am I gonna do today? If today was my last day, what would I be happy doing? And I was like, wow. Because I thought, oh my God, we get so lost and consumed in what everybody else expects us to be, do have we get lost in. Yeah. His expectations are like, it doesn't feel good. There's so much resistance, you know, you've got more to give. You're sick of me. Put in a box. And then the way he looks at it is like, well you're gonna die one day, so you gonna be happy to spending today the way that you were spending today.
Speaker 1 (00:11:59) - Or you wanna try something different because at the end of the day there's no such thing as spell they less. That's exactly right. Their lessons. Totally a hundred percent on board with that. I believe that I've definitely had a lot of lessons . Yeah. But that's also part of, that's also part of what I get to do now though, is because I have made, we'll call 'em mistakes and I, I have learned from those mistakes. I get to then share that, you know, when it comes to property, when it comes to money, when it comes to law, , I've, you know, I've been through a bit and I get to offer that up. So when I do connect with people, and that's again the empathy piece with me is, you know, I, I'm not in this business just to write home loans. Like obviously I can do that, but for me it's so much more than that for me, I meet with the clients, I understand them, I understand where they're trying to get to, and then the home loan is really just a mechanism to help 'em get the home, right?
Speaker 1 (00:12:48) - It's the home that they want. It's that desire. It's the desire to be feeling more safe and secure with money. It's to be understand how to actually manage things better. It's how to get to a point where they can then think about investing and, and building their wealth in the future. That's the sort of stuff that I think about and that I focus on with the clients. You know, the home loan obviously is, is just a mechanism for them. Yeah, exactly. All right. We're gonna have to dive into that because obviously that is your massive area of expertise, but it is all around like the home loans. Okay, so to address the elephant in the room, the scarcity mindset we just touched on before we hit record, the scarcity mindset that's going around at the moment, which you can see anywhere personally, I don't actually watch the news. I always trust that the news I need to know will find me. I did the same thing. Oh my god, I say the exact same thing.
Speaker 1 (00:13:37) - I actually stopped doing it like my god before the pandemic. I haven't watch the news from all fun. Sorry, with the whole scarcity mindset going around. Obviously you would know better than anyone in the last 12 months, the interest rates have more than double, right? Like they have, they've gone up 10 times is what they've done. 10, 10, 10 increases. What do you say to people now? Like what are the kind of conversations that you are having at the moment when people come to you with this? Because like we're discussing, I have the background in financial counseling and not that I operate as one now, but the interest rates in increasing is one of the most drastic things that can happen to our family. Can really push them from being comfortable to in financial disaster. Yep. And a lot of the things that are not incorporated in with owning a home are also the cost of actually running the home, right?
Speaker 1 (00:14:27) - Maintaining that home. When we think of rates, when we think of insurance, when we think of literally just having a larger house cost more to heat something such as basic as that or turn the lights on, there's more lights like, so that's where I feel like a lot of people get tripped up and correct me if I'm wrong, but do you find that too? Do you find like they just want to get the house, they're not fully educated or understand everything else that comes to play when your lifestyle changes? There's a lot there, there's a lot there to unpacked. Um, yeah, sorry about that. We start that's alright, let's, we, we start with the rates and the conversations that we're having around that. So the challenging thing and oh look, that is a lots of challenging things with it. Obviously the rates have increased, which is a challenge.
Speaker 1 (00:15:09) - I totally appreciate that. But a lot of the issues stem back from the fact that the rates were too low. Okay? So the rates got way, way, way too low for too long a period of time and people got comfortable, right? Yeah. And, but what, what's super interesting for anyone who really kind of gets it is that they should have never have been there and they were absolutely never going to stay there. So we only think they're high at this point by way of comparison to that. Oh, okay. But then you only have to go back to when I bought my first house. I was 21 when I bought my first house. So what am I now Must be like 10 ish years ago the interest rates were six, 7% at that time when I bought that house, I don't remember at that time being like, oh my god, rates are so high.
Speaker 1 (00:15:54) - Like what the hell? Like it was just, it is what it is. And my dad's response was, ah, you'll be right. But mine was 18% and I was like, okay dad, cool. Don't about that. Everybody has that 17% paid 80, 80 grand for that house. But yeah, happy days . Anyway, it's all, it's relative that that is all relative. But uh, so I think that a bit of this comes from the fact that everyone's forgotten and a lot of people have forgotten that troops, percent interest rates is not normal. And in fact it is. Absolutely. It's never even happened before and guys, it's probably never ever gonna happen again. All right, so if we put that off to the side and we take that anomaly out, the interest rates right now aren't even that high. No. Okay. And if we just take on the reality of that situation and help to take some heat off it, it can help to feel a little bit more calm about the situation.
Speaker 1 (00:16:45) - Now I'm not saying that to then say that you shouldn't feel stressed if you are stressed. I'm not saying that at all. But then if we go back to when I was writing those really low home loans, the conversations I was having with people at that time was exactly this. That this is not normal. These are not going to stay there. The interest rates are going to go up. And for anyone who would've listened to me at that point in time, I was telling them to make the repayment as if the repayment was already five and a five or 6% even when the interest rate was only, I've wrote lines at 1.79. I think that was the cheap wrote like this one. Yeah, I know. Insane. I was like how should we doing this for myself? But anyway, this first whole, whole other story, so I was selling people, so that was my education piece for people at that point in time was this is not normal so let's may kay while the sun shines, you know, excuse the pun.
Speaker 1 (00:17:36) - So that then in the time that you've got this fixed rate, we're making the extra payments, which some people say, well you can't make extra payments on a fixed rate and they're right because you're restricted by how much additional you can pay per year on a fixed rate. But fairly well with majority of the loans that I write that have a fixed component, I would have a variable component as well for exactly this reason. Because I want people to be offsetting, I want people to have redraw. I want people to be making extra payment but still having a fixed portion for, for the majority of it. If that's what works for them, if that's what makes the most sense, just to create that certainty. But I don't want people to be held back from being able to make extra repayments just from having a fixed rate because guys, this is the kicker is that the cheapest loan is not the lowest interest rate, the cheapest loan is the one you could pay off fastest.
Speaker 1 (00:18:23) - Mm-hmm . Okay? Mm. Because the longer you have this loan, the more interest you're going to pay. So people who get in this rat race cycle of refinance after refinance, after refinance, keep resetting their loans back to 30 years, every time they chasing rates, they have no idea that what they're doing is actually, it's gonna cost them more in the long run. Yeah. It makes no, it absolutely makes no sense. And so I have to spend a lot of time helping people understand that yes, freight is important but it is not the only thing we need to look at when we're getting a home loan. So it's got a lot of heat on it at the moment and the media has definitely done their thing to make everyone freak the hell out. It catches obviously what's happening and look from May last year your rate has gone up every single month since then, right?
Speaker 1 (00:19:12) - So depending on what your start point was, it could be pretty horrific by this point, honestly, I like, I've seen rates in the eighth at this point, which is wow. More like way well outside the market and when you see that, of course we're gonna be repricing and we're gonna be refinancing or we're gonna be bringing that back down in line with the market, but then the education really starts around the cashflow and the budget to know that this loan is affordable. So wanna touch on all of that. But you were talking before about you know, all the extra costs it takes with buying a home. So when a client, especially a lot of first home buyers, when they come through to me, I don't just have a quick phone call with them. Say, yeah, yeah, yeah, cool, we can do it, let's do it.
Speaker 1 (00:19:50) - I spend a good hour most of the time doing what I call my penny purchase plan or my penny set go depending on where the clients are up to. And I educate them on all of this stuff. We go through their budget, we have a look at what's coming in and what's going in. And instead of me asking them, what do you wanna be able to spend on a house? We have a look at what they can afford to spend on a house. There is such a big difference, right? There's such, such a big difference. And I think that's the thing, it's the banks will loan you, whatever the banks will loan you, they'll loan you almost all of the purchase price. But can you afford to pay that? No. Probably not necessarily. Probably not. Not not the amount that they allow. Not only that, the way, the other way I position it to the clients as well is do you want all your eggs in this basket?
Speaker 1 (00:20:35) - Like you're gonna buy this first home, completely max everything out, max out all your borrowing, be on noodles at home cuz you can't afford to go out and live. But then you know what you also can't afford to do, invest, save, travel, do any of the other things that is gonna make li life, is the house really that important? Come on. Yeah, that's a great question. I love that you just touched on that. So is the house more important than actually living your life? Like is the fact that, and this is when the ego kind of comes in, right? Yeah. Because I was gonna have new of the new like we're in such a materialistic world and that is the norm. If you don't have the, the brand new house or the brand new car, like you are not keeping up. I'm so, so done with the keeping up with the Joneses, everyone stop making decisions from your ego state decisions from your ego because you're not happy doing that and it'll bite you in the ass.
Speaker 1 (00:21:31) - There's a quote around that. Something like stop buying things. You don't want to impress people, you don't lie. Yeah. Because of things to impress. Other people do not do that because guess what? No one's going to sleep thinking about you. Absolutely not. No one's doing that. No one is doing that. What are some of the things, if someone's listening now and they haven't bought a home before and they're first getting in, like what are some of the questions that you would ask them to say these are the things you need to look at to be realistic and to what your purchase price should be. And I know actually really quickly, which you are probably aware of it too, but I'm pretty sure it's on the money smart website. There's actually a mortgage calculator than they could go to and they can put in like the purchase price of the house, the interest rate for 30 years.
Speaker 1 (00:22:14) - And it shows you how much interest you will pay over that 30 years. That will make you wanna pay your house off faster . It will. But also what I would probably say to that is a lot of people before they go through a process of say seeing someone like me or someone who really understands, they won't really get that, that won't really hope. That's what I tend to find about sort of numbers in general and what I worked out pretty early when I started broking, is most people don't understand the numbers realistically. And, and that's not to say that people are stupid, it's just this is not taught, this is not something that we are taught whatsoever. So all of a sudden you're just supposed to know how to get a home loan and know if it's a good option for you and it's a good setup and you know that that banks are great.
Speaker 1 (00:22:57) - No, it's all that's crap. We don't know that people dunno that. So that's why I focused in really heavy on that education piece. So look, my whole thing starts with the conversation of understanding where they're at and this is what I, this is literally what I say. I'm gonna figure out where you're at, where you're trying to get to and I'm gonna help you navigate the best way to get. So this where they wanna get to, maybe they say that it's their first home then when once we get into the nitty nitty gritty of it and they say that they wanna, you know, they live in, I don't know, let's call it, they live in North Kit and they wanna be able to buy nearby and they know that the property prices around there are probably gonna be seven, 800,000. Okay, great. And then I'm, I'm already picking up, okay, well I already know roundabout what your income is.
Speaker 1 (00:23:39) - I already, we've already talked about what your deposit have. I already know that this is not going to work. But I'm not going into that conversation to bring them down and tell them I'm going into that conversation to just lay it all out so that we can together come to a realization of what is actually viable. So what we'll do is they'll say all those things. I'm like, okay great. So then I say to them, well what would you like your repay to be? So if you're at the moment you're paying rent or at the moment you're living at home and you're saving, what are you saving perm? You know, a lot of the time, you know, first home buyers will save something along the lines of two grand a month, two and a half grand a month, three grand a month, whatever that might look like.
Speaker 1 (00:24:15) - And they'll be like, yeah, that's what feels comfortable. Okay, have we then factored in, we gonna have rates and we're gonna have utility bills and we're gonna have all these other things. And so that's when we actually go through and we do the budget, we have a look, we put it in, we actually do it together. I love that love. And then we're like, actually, you know what, it doesn't really feel that comfortable does it? You know, and there's not really gonna be enough surplus for me to do all these other things. And so then we just start to realign that repayment back to a level that does feel comfortable. And obviously when I'm doing that, I'm being really conservative with interest rates cuz I, I sort of have an indication of what's gonna be happening. So I'm, I'm going in that with a really conservative approach we set along where we think that the, the repayment is comfortable and then I let them know what that then translates to in terms of a home loan.
Speaker 1 (00:24:58) - And so if someone's come in and said that they wanna spend 800 grand and they've got, I don't know, 80 grand in savings hypothetically, and then I say, well based on what you wanna pay in a repayment, we can afford a loan of 400 doesn't add up. Doesn't. Yeah. So then we can then have, but then that doesn't, the conversation doesn't end there because often you know, they have come into that meeting based off what their friend's doing or what their parents have said to do or what, you know, the Joneses are doing. You know, for lack of a better word. Yeah. And then we can actually start to focus instead of worrying about all that, let's just focus on you. What do you want? Why is it that you are thinking that you need that property in that area? Is there a way that we can look at other areas, look a bit further out, look at a different type of property and if that doesn't work then we can keep on staying the conversation and maybe we get to a point where buying your first home right now actually isn't the best option.
Speaker 1 (00:25:47) - And have we considered buying an investment property first? You know, there's little bits of different ways that we can go about these things, but I would say that there's probably not enough people in my area that are going into that much detail with people because if you go to a broker and you don't have a deposit, they're probably not gonna speak to you. No, they're probably not. I love that you just said such a different thing that I did not even think about until like recently I had this realization of damnit, we should have just bought investment properties before we bought our family home. You know, we should have rent vested. Mm-hmm we should have had. It was after the Zack. So we had, when we built our first home, it was, oh my god, I think we were 23, 22 something. Anyway, it's a long time ago.
Speaker 1 (00:26:37) - And then we moved towns we rented for a while while we were rented that house out. And then we decided, no, we're going to sell it, sell it and buy our house. The pricing of homes were ridiculously increasing here in this area at that point. So four years ago we bought our house that we're living in now. So there's two different sides of it though, right? Hindsight's a beautiful thing, but at the same time I'm like, it kind of worked out in our favor. But looking at both, I think the smarter option would've probably been when we sold that home and we had a lot of savings. We probably should have bought an investment property because then we would've been able to buy a second investment property before now instead of buying one home that yes, this is now a great bank. So they told us we've got a lot of equity in the house now that house crisis have gone up again ridiculously mm-hmm .
Speaker 1 (00:27:27) - So we actually wouldn't be able to afford now with three dependent children to buy this house as what it's worth. Now I've known the second option of, well why don't I just keep renting? Cuz actually the rent was really affordable and we had it locked in for years. Why didn't we just buy an investment? Because we would've made a hell of a lot of equity on that investment and we would've probably would've been able to buy another investment and built up even more equity to eventually get like our dream hope even though I've pretty loved this house, right? I love this house. Great. Cause it was always a different way to do something. Like you said, there's always a different pathway to get to where you wanna go. Mm-hmm , it's about that educational piece of knowing that you do not have to just go, okay, I wanna buy a house, I'm just gonna pay that off and then eventually I'll get an investment property the way that we kind of always knew you can rent and then buy, rent those and then eventually buy your house.
Speaker 1 (00:28:18) - That's exactly right. And property takes time. Any investment takes time. No one should be going into any sort of property or investment for that matter. And I'm not giving investment advice. It's very general. Yeah. With the thought process of then selling, because that's where we often see people losing is because they then crystallized that loss and they haven't had the compound growth long term. Because what I would've wondered with you, like, you know, again, we'll just use your example is yeah, did you need to sell that other property to be able to facilitate this one or could have you held that as well? And the fact that you didn't even go through a process of that understanding, you just made a decision because you did what you thought you had to do and that's what everyone likes, what most people are doing. I did that, that's a big one of my big, big lessons and I've lost a lot of money doing exactly that and selling, like I sold that first property that I that I bought.
Speaker 1 (00:29:08) - It is absolutely my biggest regret. it was, it was all just based on emotion. It wasn't like I, I can't justify it. It wasn't a good decision. It really wasn't. It was very emotional. I bought that property in an area because of my circumstances. So my partner was there at the time, their family was there, that's where they would've lived. My work wasn't too far away, but I hated it. I actually hated it. And so from the, from the time that I moved in and like to the time that I saw, I really hated it. But it, for me hating it is just an emotional response to that, that thing. It still was a good investment and how have I looked at it from that perspective? I could have walked away, I didn't have to live there and someone else would've, someone else would've been glad to, someone else is glad to and someone else now is reaping the benefits of how much their property's grown.
Speaker 1 (00:29:58) - not me though. But anyway, so that, that's one of my big things is when when someone comes to me and, and they're wanting to do the upgrade thing or they, you know, they, they're needing to sort of make that switch their, their family is growing. It's super common. Like you're going through a process that majority of Australia does where they buy their first time, they don't have kids yet, then they get, kids are like, oh shit, we need another bedroom or two and we need a bigger house and we want a yard. And, but it's like, well okay cool, but you still bought that house however many years ago. You've done the thing you've had it. Can we retain that, leverage that to then get the next one then you've already got your first investment property and you've got your upgrade and then from there we keep leveraging from there.
Speaker 1 (00:30:37) - So that's your example, you know, hindsight again, buddy, 2020 isn't it? But I, that's what I would just say to anyone is I try to, you know, preach, don't make big money decisions without getting good advice. Yeah, don't emotional, don't make tough emotions. You gotta make it off actual analytical, logical decisions when it comes to something like that. Uh, and yeah, I can totally understand. So I think, I mean either way it depends what the people want, right? It depends what your goals are. If you are getting into properties and stuff, I mean, and my job is to show you what all your options are from there you can then make an informed decision at least then you're not gonna sit back five, 10 years later and be like, oh we could have done that. We should have done that. It's like, no, no, no we did that because that's exactly what we needed to do at the time.
Speaker 1 (00:31:23) - For all of these reasons we weighed everything up. Like you wanna be able to reflect on it in that way as opposed to we just winged it cuz that's what we thought . And to be honest, I feel like when it comes to buying houses and stuff, a lot of the time people are really dictated by or maybe guided by what their parents and family have done. So this is like the typical upbringing I guess that I had and now I've played it out right, was alright, go to school, get a good education or go to uni, get a degree. I went to two universities, get a hand of both of them and then ended up getting a full-time job. But then you get married and then you buy house and you get a couple pets, usually a couple of dogs and then you have a few kids.
Speaker 1 (00:32:03) - If I can say to anybody now being a mother of three buy investment properties, like before you have all the kids, it a hell of a lot harder. A hell of a lot harder. So much harder. Like, and like I said to you hindsight, yeah like we could have done both options. Either would've worked out, we're still very grateful because this is a fantastic house we bought, we would not be able to buy it now. It has gone up ridiculous and I was so grateful for that because it open options. We always have had this view of yes, investment properties and where we're drawn to always have been. But it is a lot more blow harder, it's a lot more challenging. Yeah. When you've got three kids and especially when you wrap yourself when you're self-employed, the banks do look at it differently for sure.
Speaker 1 (00:32:48) - So the banks, if there's anything the banks love, it's consistency. What consistency is is someone else paying you to do a job, they're taking care of the tax, taking care of the super, you just get paid into a bank account, happens every fortnight, month, whatever. Love it. Okay. Full-time mecca, part-time also good. We need a couple of pay slips casual, as long as you've been in it for six months and you know, can show consistent history. It also play on, when you're self-employed though, the way that the banks are looking at it is historical data. So they're looking at the last year's financials, tax return or you know, some banks wanna look at two years and have a look at the average of those or just an increase on those. But also when it comes to being self equity, you have other options too. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:33:29) - So we have other options where we can be a little bit more creative with different loan types in order to facilitate things that we wouldn't otherwise be able to with, with p ay Gs, I'm against this going directly to a bank for instance, right? Because you might walk into a bank, you've gotta your situation, but your situation doesn't fit that bank. So that bank turns around and says no and you think that that's it. Like you're like, oh, well it is what it is. Some people might be like, oh I might try the next bank go in there. Maybe it's a no from them too for whatever reason, but I have access to like 40 options and I'll be looking at your situation being like, hey, well I know that this isn't a fit for X, Y, Z, but it is a fit for you know, a, B, C.
Speaker 1 (00:34:12) - And so then I don't worry about even entertaining those options and I get over here, over this side and I'm having a look. Okay, well I know that this is gonna work in these ways. And that's again, coming back to my solution mindset is that you speak to me and if I say to you, we've got an option here, I'll find one. And then I I've sometimes, and then if there's not one, and for me it's not, it's a, it's not a no, it's a, okay, well what do we need to do to make it a yes? What are the things that we need to put in place for my self-employed client? Sometimes that is that, okay, we need to get to the end of this financial year. I'm gonna need to see that first year's draft tax return from your accountant. Let's see where things are up to at that point.
Speaker 1 (00:34:47) - And we have those check-ins to get you to a point where you're doing the thing. It's not a no and then just go figure it out. It's a, this is the plan of attack to how we're gonna get there. Would you like with everything in life, right? Even when you're starting a business, like you never take no for an answer. Like eventually you'll figure it out. You'll always figure it out. I mean I feel like it, it definitely, it's not something that is for the fainthearted and you've really gotta be into it. But I feel like, you know, for you and your business as well, I mean you're at the point where you've got six employees now, which is amazing. I mean, just really quickly, can we just touch on that, like even your journey as business owner and starting your own business, like what are some of the key lessons that you've learned starting out in, yeah, I mean just in business in general or being a broker up to you, but like what are some of the key things that you've learned in running your own business and then employing peak as well?
Speaker 1 (00:35:40) - Look, lots of lessons me. Lots of lessons and, and still it's still a journey. Like I, I'm only, what am I, I'm coming up to like, I'm about two and a half years in business now. I've been through what most people would consider to be the hardest years. Like your first couple of years is really, really hard, guys. Like, no two ways about it. You are trying to figure out how to run a business. You're trying to figure out how, where to find the business. You're trying to make sure you're keeping everyone happy, keeping things aflo, earning enough money, , except there's a lot for me. I started with absolutely nothing. I was starting at ground zero. I was also getting divorced at the time too. So that was, yeah, it was challenging, uh, to say, to say the very least. My dad was awesome in supporting me with what I needed to help me get out of the divorce.
Speaker 1 (00:36:26) - Which then sort of enabled me to then just sort of start from scratch with the business. Mom helped me by one of the, the laptops for one laptop for my staff member that was working for me at the time. Bless mom because yeah, like I, I was starting from, from nothing. And so I was really fortunate that I, they at least had that sort of backup. I knew based on sort of the clients that had already reached out to me and, and sort of what I had in the pipeline that I really just kind of needed to get through the first few months. So with Mortgage Broken, the way that it works is we, we might write the loan but we actually don't get paid till the month after it settles. So there's a long journey from when we engage with the client to when we actually get paid any sort of money.
Speaker 1 (00:37:04) - So I just had to write and I was writing and I was writing and I was writing and I was just obviously just trying to hit enough to make sure that I could keep things afloat. At the time it was just me and Mel. So Mel was, has been my loan processor for years prior to that and she came with me. So it was just her and I, it was just her and I. And then, so this is in like, oh no, July, 2020. And then by, I think it was maybe the November she calls me and she's like, you're not gonna believe it. And I was like, what? She's like, I'm pregnant. You know, obviously it wasn't planned for her, but it was amazing. And look, it just then meant that I then had to make sure that I was putting things in place to make sure that she was gonna have to be replaced so she could go on mat leave.
Speaker 1 (00:37:42) - So that's when the next hire came, which was essentially just to replace that role. And then we got big enough that we then needed someone to take over our settlements. And then it got to a point where we're like, okay, we need to add another body in here from an admin perspective. So for me, the growth has happened as the workload has increased and everyone kind of reaches their capacity is like, okay, well we need to fit another person in. So the way that my business works is a little bit like a, a conveyor belt. So we have the admin team at the front that takes care of, you know, all the scheduling and collecting all the documents. I do all the client meetings and all of the strategy. We have a processing team that sits in the middle to push all the, the loans through.
Speaker 1 (00:38:17) - And then we have a settlement team on the other end. So people are very well looked after. And that's something that, uh, a lot of feedback that I get is that everyone feels really supported all the way through. A lot of people in business try to do it all themselves. And you're doing that because you feel like you can't afford to hire anyone. And I get it, it's a massive investment. I've not paid myself to make sure that I can pay my people, right? Like that's absolutely happened more than once . And I'm still only paying myself what I need to to survive. Ultimately the bi like the business needs to be reinvested back into. And I've in, I've also got other businesses as well. Little bit of a, I can't sit still. Tight person. . What other businesses do you have other than Penny Finance?
Speaker 1 (00:39:01) - So Penny, so Penny Finance is our residential business. So it's our residential finance business. We're helping first home buyers, first time investors, you name it. Anything to do with property we're, we're doing in, in that space. But I also now do a lot of commercial finance too. So I, a lot of business owners, so we'll do their asset finance or any finance that they need within their business, help them with their growth or their scale, but also commercial finance in a sense of, you know, buying commercial buildings or buying a building that you're operating a business out of instead of leasing it. And so meeting with business owners again, understanding where they're at, understanding where they're trying to get to, and then using debt as a leverage point to get to where you wanna go. So this comes back to that whole investment piece. Like I did that, I took out some finance during Covid, there was covid money available.
Speaker 1 (00:39:46) - Go was government supported. It was really decent interest rates because I was investing heavily in people. Cause I knew that's what I had to do to be able to scale. I didn't have the money, but I was like, you know what? I know it's gonna work. I I need to back myself in here. And so I I took out a small loan at that time to, to sort of help facilitate that. Yeah, didn't happens. And then, you know, you um, we, we touched on it earlier, Carla. Well you and I actually have, well you know, one of my business partners, fire family, which was very small work, but I also have a plan management business, which, so my mom, uh, this all came sort of from my mom a little bit. Mom works in the N D I S space. And so plan management essentially means that people who are receiving N D I S funding need support paying their invoices and and managing that.
Speaker 1 (00:40:29) - So we take care of that for them. And what Nicole does anyway, , it's so amazing. I feel like that's what happens though when you're someone who's very like, you just can't sit still. But you know, you have so much to give and like you were saying at the start, you need to shine briner because there's so much more that you're here to do. And here you are, you're doing all the things and you're so lit up when you're talking about it. Like you don't seem like someone who is stressed out going, oh my God, where's someone from my plate? Cause I'm so busy. You're like, I love each all this, I love this shit, I love this life, but I've created, and these opportunities and the opportunities have come in your way because you're actively doing something about it. Yeah. And that's not to say that it doesn't get stressful at times.
Speaker 1 (00:41:03) - Like preface that you would know this too. You're trying to grow a business as well. Like there is absolutely times where it is a grind. There is absolutely times where it is a struggle. There is absolutely times where I have been in a ball cold up and been like, can I really do this? Right? But for me, those moments are pretty fleeting. Like I'll have them. That self-doubt starts to creepy and you're like, oh, that's why they told me to be in a box and not do it. And I said, yeah, can I do it? Like, no, you have done it. You are doing it. You're here right now. And something that I've learned recently that has really been helping me with that sort of mindset piece is there's things that that happen and then there's the things you tell yourself about what happened. It's not the actual experience.
Speaker 1 (00:41:43) - So if you just stop for a second, you take away that story piece that you've been attaching and latching onto, you realize that it's just a thing. It's just happened. It happened. Yeah. Okay, sit with that. Here's what it is. All right, what am I gonna do about it? And then we move through that as opposed to just getting completely debilitated by the story that you created. Yeah, there's always that story in our mind is fantastic for it. But being able to be the observer of your life and your reality out of the thoughts that are then making those feelings happen. That's a true, that's a true art form in that, in its sense. It's just practice, isn't it? Like it's just practice. It is just sit and flip it because you can either dwell on it and it let it ruin your day or weak or bug or like make you quit.
Speaker 1 (00:42:24) - Or you can utilize it to make you stronger and you can strengthen those parts of yourselves that are trying to tell you, no, you can't do this. Who are you to do that? Like, so all that stuff and go, no, yeah, yeah, I choose to strengthen that. I am this person, I am this person becoming this person. From there, the magic just unlocks. I love this conversation. I, that's forever. But what I really want for all the listeners to know is where can they find you? Mm-hmm. . Well I hang out mostly on Instagram, uh, post stories, everything is very educational reels, posts, like that's kind of where I hang out. I haven't entertained going onto other platforms and that's purely from a time perspective for me. So kind of just focusing on there. So if you wanna see anything from me really just sort of, again from an educational perspective, that's where you're gonna find it.
Speaker 1 (00:43:11) - Obviously you can visit the website if you wanna book any calls in, you can also just DM me, obviously I'll send you a link. But the journey to sort of meet with me and go through our process is more often than not, what I'll do is I'll just start off with a discovery call with most people that, you know, we call 10 to 15 minutes. Again, I'm trying to understand where you're up to, where you're trying to get to make sure it is me, that that is the best person for that. Cuz sometimes what happens is people call and what they really need is a financial counselor, or what they really need is financial advice or what they really need as an accountant. And I'm also very passionate about connecting them with the right person in that way as well. So I have really key financial advisors that I use that I, realistically, they're the only people that I trust, , um, accountants as well and, and matching a person up with a right accountant based on what they do.
Speaker 1 (00:43:54) - And you know, again, like their business or if they're, you know, they don't have a business just again, so they can get the best outcome. So for me, sometimes that discovery call is just me giving someone else business . Yeah. But that's being true, isn't it? That's been true. That's being real. That's being of service. And that's the best thing you can give to someone is being honest. If you could help them, you will. But if you can't point 'em in the right direction, that's being real. Totally. Yeah. I love that. Oh yeah, you're at Penny Finance and I will link everything in the show notes anyway. And you also do have a penny budget template, which would be so, so useful. Yes. So I, I'll also link to that as well in the show notes. But I have loved this conversation. Thank you so much, Morgan. Me too. Thank you. Well actually officially meeting you. Yeah, you too. Thank you so much
Speaker 0 (00:44:38) - , thank you so much for listening to today's episode. I hope you enjoyed it, and if you did, I would absolutely love it. If you could please leave me a five star review and let me know your thoughts. And if you know anyone who would benefit from listening to this episode, please share it with them. Until next time, remember, everything you desire and deserve is just on the other side of your own resistance. So take that next step.